"Dear Edie..."    Page Two

Table of Contents: 
- Worried
- Concerned
- Mr. Asian
- Bewildered
- Lil' Etiquette

"Dear Edie,
So now I'll come out straight, how, or what do you think about ...age..., where do you think age becomes a matter (if it already does), or age becomes a bother(i hope it never will). Though I do not like to admit it I am not in my twentys anymore. Its a lot worse I am 39. Now there is this litle voice in me whispering sometimes "girl are you not getting to old for this"? I tell myself As long as it makes me feel the way it does (heavenly)as long as i am in good shape, make good moves and feel comfartable with being natural me I keep going on that floor. I started out 3 years ago, taking double classes, 8 hours a week, and about 12 hours practice at home and Fridays and Saterdays going out freedance or salsa concerts if any where offered. I always wanted people from my groups to come along but after once or twice they quit. So I made my oen salsa routine, my outs alone/solo. By now I have done many schools, many classes and these last two years I stuck with one teacher, simply because I feel in [my country] he is the Best: solid, for real, high expectations, work-out, teacher in the true sense of the word. And in today I still take classes. Why take classes if you do not need them anymore? Very simple I can't let go I want to keep up, stay in shape, keep the progress in my movements going on. Addiction, this lady here sticks to class, because one is never good enough (just my opinion) I prefer quality over quantity. In the beginning I was shy and not a very confidend , so many things to pay attention to. And at times so much bullshit going on around the dancefloor (mentality matters). At times were I felt most lonely I swore myself nothing or nobody I will allow to come between me and Salsa. I broke my commitment twice, stupid, it was not worth it(after that never again)!. But as I kept going and struggling I worked myself to a comfartable position. Beautiful dancer, guts, no more shy, temperament, elegant, good bodywork a hot female dancepartner. I am not talking nonsens, I do not like to overestimate myself, neither do I enjoy non-sense! But as it is, you put quality in it , you will get quality outof it! I am only result of my actions. Howeverrrrrr coming back to the subject ...age... I still like to hear your personal comment on that, Edie.
- Worried"

Dear Worried,
Age? Dancing keeps you looking young and healthy! It's a proven fact! The minute you stop, you will start dying inside, and start "looking your age". I know of a Cuban woman in her FIFTIES who looks like she's in her early thrities. I see her out every weekend, and sometimes during the week. "Salsa is my life" she once told me. She's got energy, pizzaz, and helped all the "now great Los Angeles Salsaeros" when they were first starting out (yes, they too once SUCKED at one point - like everyone else).

It was this woman who helped them in the beginning, and along the way. She was patient with their every step. It was this woman whom all of them thank and sincerely love today. She's a wonder, a joy, and a truly beautiful woman, both inside and out. She's a GRANDMOTHER for crying out loud... and the legs on that woman... I saw her at an outside picnic and... whew!!! Her "Salsa dancers" legs would rival ANY twenty year-old there.

Salsa Dancers laugh, sweat, and think more than the majority of the population. They take more effort to do EVERYTHING in life. Salsa dancers love life. They love passion. They love to laugh, and they love people. This is what will keep you young and never, ever alone.

DON'T STOP!!!! EVER!!!

I'm so glad you're taking all those classes. This gives you something to look forward to. Dancing is a big challenge, and one of the few activities that is never truly mastered. Too many of us "give up" after we've accomplished something. Dancing is hard to give up because of what it does for your body, mind, and soul. Something spiritual happens when you're dancing. When you're in contact with another human being, touching each other, holding hands, coordinating steps, laughing, sweating, and just having a ball, you're twice as happy as some of those people I see in grocery stores that are 10 and 40 pounds overweight, look miserable, and buying their TV Guide, chips, and Slim Fast.... They complain of loneliness, ailments, and sadness. Their conversations are filled with the latest talk-show jargon and people in worse situations than them. What a life.

In the August '97 issue Life Magazine, there is an article on the healing power of "touch". Dancing Salsa is all about "touch" if you will. HEAL ME BABY!!! I was healed of the worst case of allergies and asthma that a person could ask for. When I turned twenty-nine, I couldn't keep enough Kleenex and Allerest in the house. I would weez at night, couldn't breathe during the day, and had to carry around an inhaler all the time. I was allergic to dust, mites, wild flowers, trees, grass, cats- you name it. I was basically allergic to the entire planet earth. I realized these ailments were all in my head the minute they disappeared when I started dancing! I'm not kidding. This is no joke, and I have medical records to prove it. The month I stared dancing Salsa, my allergies, and my asthma COMPLETELY went away. I realized that most ailments of this type are a state of mind. I changed my state of mind through this "Salsa Discovery", and my body was healed. I didn't quite know how to heal myself, but I asked my body and God for help and a cure. Something in my life wasn't right. I was 30 lbs overweight, and miserable. I was a size 14, and hated myself. I'm now a size "3". Who would have ever known "Salsa" would by my cure? God answered me, and I thank Him dearly for that.

The most beautiful thing happened in LA last year. A man in his 70's was dancing with a beautiful woman. He looked up at her and said, "I'm having the time of my life!". A couple of seconds later, he had a heart attack, and died, right there on the Salsa dance floor.

THAT is how I want to die. Dancing, dancing, and dancing... and having an absolute BALL doing it.


"Dear Edie,
This has to do with this poor girl who is dancing all day and has to
change clothes.

WHEN DOES SHE SHOWER IN ALL THIS PLANNING? I find it difficult to go from club to club to club and not hit a shower along the way....

What I am getting at is this, you are somewhat of a power now in the Salsa World, and a lot of women tak your advice, based on your advice, us men are going to end up with a lot of women who bring a change of clothes in their car. We want them to go home, take a shower and then continue on to the "club". I can tolerate maybe a two-club minimum HAHAHAHHAHAHA

THE EVER-READY BUNNY IS CUTE BUT I DON'T WANT TO DANCE WITH HIM IF HE HASN'T WASHED UP.
- Concerned...

Dear Concerned...
You're right. BUT, the reality is that we don't always have the time. This is why I suggest in my Helpful Hints column, to take perfume and deoderant with you at all times. You never know what can happen, and we have to be ready for ANYTHING...


Dear Edie,
I enjoy your column. Insightful, humorous and true in many respects. However, I must qualify your statement about
when women say no. I believe you are being a bit simplistic in your explanation of what constitutes a no. As in any situation, prejudices abound in some form or another and there may well be other forces at work against you. I know quite a few friends who have been turned down because of the way they look. To some, appearances are the primary judgment tool. Sure, it is not fair, and it sure feels horrible to be prejudged by how you look. But, it does happen. Some people just do not progress beyond that level of awareness. God forbid should you look Asian. Mire que los chinos no saben bailar. That seems to be lurking in almost every salsa club I have been to. So... I just thought that it might be important to qualify that statement. From what I have seen, it can be tough to be a salsero and Asian.
- Mr. Asian

Dear Mr. Asian,
It took me a while to think about this one. At first I wanted to say, "Oh, but that's not true, and oh, no, it's how well you dance, how you hold the woman, how you ask her for a dance, how you handle her, how soft or how hard you lead, bla, bla, bla....etc, etc. I even asked some of my closest Salsa buds this question. They all agreed that you are TOTALLY off-base and you are just using that as excuse not to get better....

Then, I thought about your question some more...

What kind of world is this that we live in? It really depends on how we look at it. If we view the world as prejudice and unjust, and people are basically mean and that's to be expected, then indeed we attract into our lives what we think about all day long. We become what we think about.

Let me explain. I know that if I go into a club feeling gross, fat, and ugly, I never get asked to dance. It shows all over my facial and bodily expressions. If I go feeling fat and ugly, then I expect people will look at me in the same light - and I see them viewing me this way as well. I never dance well when I feel fat and ugly. That's why I PURPOSELY go out of my way to dress to the hilt, put on tons of makeup, ravish my hair, stay on a strict diet and workout plan, and try my damnedest to look like the sexiest bombshell that ever walked the face of this planet. When I walk into a club feeling that way, you can just imagine how I think people look at me, and how I dance...

I am EXPECTING 2nd looks from men, I am EXPECTING to be asked to dance, I am EXPECTING to dance well and have a GREAT TIME doing it. It ALWAYS works. The truth is, people really don't care. Most don't give a damn. THEY COULD REALLY CARE LESS WHAT I LOOK LIKE. They're just there to dance with ANYONE half-way decent, and willing to share in the release of the day's tensions and frustrations - like everyone else!

If you truly believe that people are prejudice, you are right. Some people will not say "yes" to a dance with an Asian - or any other race besides their own. If you believe this, then you'll start planting that idea into other's heads, then THEY will start believing it too. It's kind of like that "rash" that mysteriously went around in grade school... remember that? One person started itching, then everybody started itching, then we all got to go home!! Yea!! It was a dirty trick then, but after I participated, I REALLY STARTED TO ITCH! I'm not kidding! I was itching here, itching there, getting welts ... it was awful!

IT WAS ALSO ALL IN MY MIND.

I created my own reality by BELIEVING this, and it became true.

Mr. Asian, if you truly believe this in your heart, than I'm sad to say, it's true. They will ALL turn you down, so just expect it. Don't even bother to improve, or be persistent. Don't bother taking classes and smiling and showing off in front of them. You're Asian, so what' the use, right? You are right.

On the other hand, if you start believing that you are AWESOME and the baddest dancer on the planet - with a body and looks to match, you WILL BECOME THAT so fast it will make your head spin - and the Latina ladies too! Latina women are picky about their men - but they'll NEVER turn down a dance with an AWESOME dancer - no matter what color they are. They go simply to get a workout and have fun - not to analyze. If a girl keeps telling you "no", then stop asking her. Go on to the next. I usually give up on a man when he turns me down twice. I figure, turn me down once, shame on you, turn me down twice, shame shame on me.

Some of the best Latin dancers are Asian. In fact there are two I can think of right away that just blow me away when I dance Salsa with them - you may be one of them, I don't know who you are yet...

And don't forget that Orquesta de la Luze is a wonderful example of a group of talented individuals tearing down the Asian / Latina barrier. They are a phenomenal Salsa Band, they are incredible dancers, and they are LOVED and ACCEPTED by the entire Latina world. You would never know they were Asian until you actually saw them. They have blown EVERYONE away with their incredible success, because they didn't know their limitations. Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they will be yours (quote from Richard Bach).

ANYWAY, don't use your race as an excuse for women's judgment. If it's true in your eyes, these gals aren't worth it and don't even bother, nor go there. Go find the "quality" dancer types - the ones that are just there for the good time and fun of it. Remember that some of them will not dance with people they don't know because some may have very jealous boyfriends watching their every move. Just keep dancing, take privates, have fun, and never, ever think twice about what God decided you to look like. You're stuck with it - whether you like it or not, you've GOT to bloom where you're planted my friend. Others have, and have succeeded, why not you?

One of my favorite quotes of all time:
"People blame circumstances for where they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this life are the people who go out and look for the circumstances they want, and if they can't find them, make them. " -
George Bernard Shaw


"Dear Edie,
I used to always wear something real "hot" to go dancing. People didn't exactly fall in line to dance with me though, and I figured it was because I'm white and I haven't established myself as a Salsera here in [the city]. One night, a Friday, I was so tired from work that I didn't change for [a hot Salsa club]: I just wore black slacks and a simple, conservative white blouse. I never sat down. So many men asked me to dance! So I've experimented with this and got a lot more conservative about my dress- and now a lot more people ask me to dance. It's so strange because I see lots of Latinas dressed, say, in midriff-baring tops and hotpants, but I guess a white girl who's showing it off just looks like trash, even if she CAN dance. (Or maybe it's just me and the fact is I look BAD dressed in those kind of outfits)
- Bewildered...

....What do you think?... I'm looking for answers from the male "beef" side...


Answer from Beef #1:
Dear Edie,
I went straight to my boyfriend/dance partner with this one for an opinion from a latin, male, salsero. He said it could be one of three things. 1. He said there is a fine line between what looks hot and what looks "slutty." Those were his exact words. He said that an outfit that flatters one girl may look horrible on another girl wearing the exact same outfit. He said that latin guys don't want to dance with a girl who looks like a prostitute. They tend to favor "nice" girls. 2. He said it could have been a matter of approachability.. He said that whether or not a latin guy asks a girl to dance can depend on where the girl is sitting or standing. He said that he has noticed anglo girls tend to congregate up front, in the light, where everyone can see them (especially if they think they look "hot") This makes them less likely to be approached becasue others may see the guy get rejected. ....and then he divulged one the secrets of latin male salseros... If a girl is located in the direct line to the restrooms, her chances are much better. Latin male types have great big egos which really get hurt if they are turned down for a dance. (Most of them think they are hot dancers even if they are not) If the girl is conveniently located on the path to the restroom, he will saunter over, ask her to dance, and if she says no, then continue on to the facilities like he was planning to go there in the first place. 3. He said maybe she just looked "stuck up" in her finery and conservative clothing simply makes her seem more relaxed and approachable.

If she keeps going to the same places, she will get to know some of the regulars, and they will ask her to dance regardless of what she is wearing if they like her and if she can follow well. That's my opinion.

Yours is such a fun website to read. I love these questions you pose that really make us think. Here's a question for you. Do you follow a guy when you are dancing even if he is not following the beat of the music? Sometimes I keep the rhythm for just a bit even though my partner is not, thinking that if the guy is inexperienced, it may help him out. But--I have danced with some who refuse to follow the music. Do you feel obligated to follow even if you know are only dancing to the rhythm in his mind and not to the music? (my boyfriend says follow and the guy will think you are a great dancer. If the female does not follow, then the guy will think it's the girls fault and that she can't dance.)


Answer from Beef #2:
Dear Bewildered.....
The salsa scene carries more of a mature crowd than others... Yes it is true that men don't mind a one night stand but most "mature" men can decypher a woman by the clothes that she wears.... To make a long story short, Im thirty one and if Im looking for a "W OMAN" and I want to enjoy my night with someone who at my same level then I will definetely go with the one that is dressed conservative. She is the one that is going to get my offer to the "Big Dance"....!!!! Don't change...


Answer from Beef #3:
Dear Ms. Bewildered.
This may be a classic case of intimidation. No guy likes to be turned down by a "Hot" looking lady. It is the epitome of rejection. In fact, the very act of rejection can cause a guy to lose face. We end up thinking that everyone else is thinking "Yeah, that guy thought he was hot... Well, she sure put him in his place." In many cases quite a few people would be thinking "What a mean person" about the lady but... we (guys) don't tend to think that way. The situation is heightened when we see others witness our blunder and snicker. By putting on more regular clothes you made yourself safer... and more approachable. Look out though! Once the guys get to know you and you decide to wear a more risque outfit you are open game. No, not just from the pick-up perspective. You think you're getting a lot of exercise now? With the new outfit you'll have gentlemen dancing with you out to your car when you leave... Well, almost. In my opinion, you have mll get at least the same number if not more dances. Good luck...
-Salsa for 2 cents...


Answer from Beef #4:
Dear Bewildered,
The woman's clothing style. This is highly based on personal taste. I enjoy looking at sexy women with a sense of true stlye, whether the style is sexy and provocative or demure and sophisticated. The key is: WELL DONE. I can't tell you in words what the difference is between a woman who looks sexy and provocative and alarming versus one who looks like a slut. But I can spot it.

The same goes for a woman who shows up in more formal attire. Some will look like stiff robots who are tied up in a knot. Others can pull it off beutifully, looking like, well, there just aren't words. To get an idea of what I mean look in a Victoria's Secret Catalog. There are some great examples of both formal and exhibitionist attire in there.

You have to feel really comfortable. When I dress, I make sure that there is not a doubt in my mind that I am one of the best looking, sexiest men alive. That is the attitude I take with me to the clubs. I know I look good, I don't have to convince myself. (my dancing is another story:)

I am MUCH more attracted to the women who dress sophisiticated. They are rarer, and when they have that sense of style, they are VERY sexy and alluring. They command more respect by dressing classy. Men take them more seriously. In Salsa I find I ask the classy girls to dance more often then the mini-skirt clad girls. It has a lot to do with the kind of women I want to meet.


Answer from Beef #5:
This question about how the lady dresses and getting dances in a hard one. Especially since we don't have a picture or anything to go on . Not having seen the lady in question, I can only guess at what caused the change in situation regarding getting dances? I wonder what club she was in? Well, here goes some guesses that probably will suggest more questions than they
resolve.

I'll rule out the possibility that she looks bad. If her looks turned men of they probably would turn then off even more when she dressed conservatively - or not (smile). Also, I've seen some pretty questionable bodies in the hot Salsa dresses getting plenty of dances. So I'll limit my guesses to other avenues. Perhaps all of these apply.

Possibility number 1:
If she is very beautiful, men are often intimidated by this and reluctant to approach such a woman for fear of rejection or their own lack of self confidence. Also, if she is tall and wearing heels versus perhaps not having them when she was "dressed down" being shorter may have presented her as more of a candidate as a partner? Also, if she is very pretty, only the single unattached men may dare to dance with her for fear of making their partner, lover, or girl friend jealous.

Possibility number 2:
Perhaps she over did it trying to look hot? Was the look she had that of a prostitute, this would turn men off? Speaking in the broadest of generalities, there are some cultural differences in how people dress and assumptions are drawn from them. Here again it might be easier to know if this applied by knowing what club she was in. If most of the people know each other, how they dress has little to do with what people think about them. If someone new comes in and they are unknown, quite a lot of what's thought about them is determined by how they are dressed.

Possibility number 3:
When dancing with someone for the first time (and if the approach is about dance, and not to form a relationship), many good dancers may not be willing to take a chance on someone who is going to attract a lot attention unless they are pretty sure she is a good dancer. If it turns out that they don't dance well together I'm sure the guy would rather it not be with a high-profile partner because everyone may be watching. It's easier to take a dance chance with someone who is less conspicuous.

Possibility number 4: (Perhaps the most likely explaination)
Perhaps she was coming on too strongly. The tone of her note suggests that she was trying real hard to look hot to attract attention, and "dress like the latinas". Perhaps she was sending out too aggressive a signal. I think Latino men may be kind of turned off by lady's who come on too strongly or are emanating that "vibe" and look them too directly in the eye.

The night she showed up in her work clothes I'm sure she had no attitude about how she looked. She may even have been feeling shy about it and not seeking attention. Boom! Obviously (I'm guessing), she must be attractive or she wouldn't have attracted any attention dressed conservatively. If she feels she'd have more fun dressing "hotter" she find a style that is so without being so blatant, and have fun.

Answer from Beef #6:
I don't think being white has much to do with anything. Boys will be boys in any ethnic group.

I will say this; I prefer women who dress with style which does not translate to displaying all of the goods or the outlines of every curve and crevice. Even if the girl has a slammin body(like Edie), does not provide her with the liberty to always dress in revealing little outfits and still look good. Two words, taste and and style!!!!

Having said that, all bets are off when it comes to Hispanic Dudes. Hispanics generally go for what I consider to be trashy looking women. I am talking about the Hispanics that generally frequent the Salsa clubs. I am not saying that they are bad people but there is a big difference between Spain spanish(European) and Hispanics.

Personally, I like the European style of dress and the way that Spanish(Spain) women carry themselves.. To me they are much more sexy in their long skirts and less revealing style of dress.

Anyway, if you're just interested in dancing all night I guess you should continue wearing those long paints and white shirts. But don't base your level of attractiveness from Latin Clubs because it's a bad place to gauge such things.

Remember the words of the late Versiage
" There's no accounting for bad Taste"


Answer from "Edie's personal questions to the Beef at clubs":

I believe it’s a combination of factors, but after asking all sorts of men this question at clubs, it is certainly NOT because you are "white".

Theory #1:
I’ve run across a similar situation. My former partner, for example, loves women (and me) in very, very short dresses. He loves a great set of legs (what man doesn’t?). In fact, when we go out, if he doesn’t like a particular dress I’m wearing, he’ll ask me if I haven’t got any other
dress in my trunk...(the nerve...)

Anyway, there was one time in particular I had gotten off work late. He wanted to meet me at a club that night. I didn’t have time to change, so I just went in what I was wearing, which was basically a dark blue suit jacket, with a long, flowing skirt to my ankles, and a stretch shirt under the jacket. Very professional looking, but the long skirt gave a feminine flair.

Needless to say, I arrive at the club, and when he saw me, he almost fell off his chair. He had a HUGE smile on his face, and could barely
keep his hands off me! He felt my dress, looked at me, and just kept staring, and staring, and telling me how beautiful I looked. I could not believe it. He was that way the whole night. He could not get over my dress!

Theory #2:
Those "Latina women" in midriff-baring tops and hotpants, may be better known than you, and have been in the scene a lot longer. The men they’re dancing with are "old friends" they’ve known for years. It has nothing to do with the fact that you are "white".

Theory #3:
When a man goes out with a lady, or asks her for a dance, he wants to be "proud" of the woman he is seen with. He wants to have class. He wants to feel debonaire, he wants to feel "decent". Men want to see our "conservative" side. They enjoy it on occasion! They feel more
comfortable around us - like they felt around their sisters or mothers. They want to feel uninhibitied, relaxed, and like men of honor. Sometimes guys will give each other shit about dancing with "That Slut" or "Ms. Underwear". Guys talk. They want to avoid that kind of talk from their friends, so they end up avoiding you.

I have found that most men in the Salsa scene are very traditional - especially if they were born in a different country, and especially if they are in their thirties or older. It’s basic instinct that when a man asks a lady to dance he may feel he has to "perform" for her, and make sure she’s pleased with him. Instinctively, subconsiously, he feels he must be better than her, and not have to compete for attention. If you’re dressed to the hilt, in a very sexy outfit, wearing next to nothing, well, that not only intimidates certain men, but it also makes them wonder about you.

Theory #4:
Another thing for you to realize is that there are a lot of "secret affairs" going on in the Salsa scene. People dating "undercover". This is safer, and does not make you both a "cast away" from dancing with everyone else. Some women don’t like their "boyfriends" dancing with
women who look too sexy - and men will purposely avoid you to avoid the confrontation later on...

I know for a fact that certain men will REFUSE to dance with me if I’m wearing next to nothing - even if we’ve been dancing together for months! If I go to a club in a conservative outfit, they’ll ask me to dance everytime - like clockwork.

Theory #5:
There’s one very good dancer I know who has complained to me about women who show their belly buttons in midriff-baring tops at a Salsa club. He says that when they sweat, they slip through his hands like a damp fish when he tries to turn them (some moves require grabbing the girl’s waist). He feels he can’t dip them, or do much of anything while dancing. Men are particular about the women they choose to dance with - especially the good dancers with an ego. A woman not only has to be a decent dancer, but her outfit also has to be "just right" so it doesn’t look like he’s screwing up on his lead. These guys CONSTANTLY want attention. And some of them mistakenly think the only way they can get it is by doing "cool" moves.

If I were you, I would continue to experiment, one evening wearing something very conservative, and the next going balls-out sexy and in a "nothing outfit". Then ask your "guy friends" what they honestly think, and why they think that way. I have a feeling you’ll be quite surprised...


Dear Edie,
What is proper etiquette? The man to lead the way to the dance floor or the gal? Hmmm? Let me know.
- Lil' Etiquette

Dear Lil' Etiquette,
Since the woman is the one who is following, it is only natural, that she "follow" her partner to the dance floor. It looks so nice when a man gently pulls his partner to the dance floor by one hand. If a woman takes the guy's hand, and pulls him to the dance floor, it appears that she is the domineering one; taking lead, taking control, and the stronger, decision-maker of the two. She looks aggressive and almost intimidating. In dancing, all chauvinism aside, the woman is the more delicate, the more frail of the two, and the one that must follow. "She" should be the one displayed, and lead to the floor.

It looks tacky if it appears the woman is leading a guy onto the dance floor. The woman should make it look like the man asked "her" - not the other way around. Even if she ask HIM to dance, it should still appear as if he asked HER. It's old fashioned I know, but it's nice. If he asked "her", then HE is more willing to dance with her than she is with him. It's the old female hard-to-get attitude we all know and love.....

Another appropriate way of leading the woman to the floor would be when the man "allows" her onto the floor as if he was sitting her down at a dinner table for example. He should walk in front of her and lead her across the carpet to the edge of the dance floor. Once he gets to the edge, he can gently place her in front of him, by placing his hand gently on her back, and allow her to first step on the floor, in a very gentleman-like fashion. He should then take her hand, pull her close, and start the dance. How romantic...