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"Dear Edie..." Page Three Table of Contents: "Dear Edie, From time to time, I will meet a guy (often Latino, but not always) at a club, who is either a great dancer, or not a great dancer, who will dance with me several times and be very attentive, and then ask for my phone number. (FYI I am white, at least semi-attractive, and am still learning salsa and taking lessons, but can dance with about 50% of the guys at the clubs). So, after I give him my phone number, and sometimes I will get his number, I never hear from him again. A friend of mine has had similar experiences. For example, one guy showered her with attention at a club, bought her drinks, said he didn't have a girlfriend, asked for her number, and then never called because the girl he arrived with was not "just his dance partner" but Although this may not be true in every case, I have heard that there are guys out there who just collect numbers. But I have to admit that I seem to be duped every time into thinking that just once, one of them will call. My friends tell me that I should NEVER call them if they don't call first. However, I feel that life is too short to be at the mercy of any member of the male species. Rather than waiting around getting annoyed, I am considering calling first. Is this terrible? I don't want to fuel some guy's ego trip, but I don't want to let an opportunity go by either. I don't really buy into the idea that they might be intimidated by me- especially when they appear so sure of themselves at the clubs. I am not really taking up this sport just to meet people. That is an added benefit, but I do enjoy it for the pure sake of dancing. However, it takes the fun out of it somewhat to get one's hopes up, and then return to that "just for fun" baseline. What do you think?" Advice from a male Salsero... Dear Tired of Waiting, Therefore I really have no need to get a phone number from them, since I'll end up seeing them again. The most I'll do is exchange names. That's it. Maybe after a coupe of times dancing at clubs together I'll ask for a phone or pager number to stay in contact. Its been my experience that I end up asking for more numbers from people I take mambo class with , cause we can go to clubs and practice the same turn patterns that we learned in class. By the same token I not like some the dancers you find in certain clicks. You know the ones. They are the ones who only dance with people of their dance caliber (stuck up). Sure I like to dance with people who dance one "2", but I'll never turn anyone down who asks me to dance. I'm at a dance club for one reason and that's to dance. But again that's me. Now if you really like someone, then go ahead give them a call. I personally like aggressive woman (maybe because I'm sure of myself). If I give you my phone number its should be because I want you to call me. You shouldn't be worried about who calls If he doesn't really want to call you because he really doesn't like the way you dance, then screw him, he really isn't someone you want to be with. Then that means he was dancing with you because you were the best he could find at the time. Is this the type of person you want to be linked to? I think not. In any case don't rush it. Rushing into a possible bad situation may cause you to miss out on some great guy who may be standing on the side lines. Also remember that if you keep dancing, that you'll move into that "very good dancer" category. Which means that you'll be dancing with more guys that you'll know what to do with. At this point, maybe you should look into finding a guy who's not as good as you. Someone who needs you to help him become a better dancer. Ahhhhh. think of it. Now the shoe will be on the other foot. You'll be in the position of power and of bestowing approval. It may be a little f-up way of thinking, but the heck with it,.. it works for me. More Advice from another male Salsero... Dear Tired of Waiting, I guess girls just have to recognize our motives...our motives for asking for girl's phone number could be that of seeking friendship, a relationship, or just fun. In each of these scenarios the motives could be easily recognized by the actions, timing, and tone of voice used. For example, If I see a girl whom I really like and I would like to have her phone number then I will not just take her out to dance and say, "May I have your phone #???" I would just be patience...I will take the girl out a couple of times...I would talk to her in a deep and smooth voice...very sensual...I would buy her a drink...I would just make her feel relax and confident every time we dance and talk...I will make her smile...etc...and when the timing is right I would go on to ask her for her phone number. Now if I just want to gather phone numbers and be a player then I will not go through all that trouble...I'll just take the girl out...I will throw her a couple of nice lines and ask for the phone #...if the girl gives it to me then fine...it is just another number on the list. I guess girls have to play hard to get...the challenge excites us and we tend to focus our energy and attention on such girls. Another thing...in my opinion girls should not ask a guy for his phone number...furthermore, girls should let guy call them first. Even MORE Advice from ANOTHER male Salsero... Dear Tired of Waiting, It is true that some guys will assume that you are "only after one thing" if you ring them, but I think that this is the exception rather than the rule. Provided you don't meet them anywhere where you might be in danger there will be no harm done if things don't work out as you would like. In many cases, a guy will not ring because he is not sure what reaction he will get. In particular, a good male dancer will always be very self-confident when he is dancing and will always be very popular at a club, but he knows that many of the women who hang around him are only interested in dancing with him or in being seen to hang out with one of the elite dancers. In such a case, depending on his character, he may not have the confidence to try to take things further unless he is given very clear signals by the young lady concerned. I personally won't ask a girl for her telephone number unless I intend to use it, but I know from experience that it is much easier to ask for a number than it is to dial it. You will have to accept that if you ring a guy, you may find that he is not interested, but remember that this is no more than you are asking him to accept if he rings you. If you don't ring, things will not work out whether he is interested or not. And yet, some more Advice from ANOTHER male Salsero... Dear Tired of Waiting, As I see it the problem this lady has lies not with her ability to attract suitors, but rather with the vibes she is giving off after she's met them. I suspect that subconsciously she is emitting "committment" signs far too early in the game and this is scaring away the prey. Or maybe she just comes across as easy - after all, what kind of girl falls for those corny chat-up lines and then gives a guy her number (and more importantly, where can I meet them). My advice would follow the following lines... 1. Play hard to get. Dance with lots of different partners early on instead of letting one man have a monopoly. If guys see another guy appearing to get somewhere with a girl early on they will automatically mark her down as taken for the evening which reduces her chances of a score. 2. Don't fall for chat up lines that have obviously been used before. If a guy tells you he hasn't got a girlfriend without it coming up naturally in the conversation he's lying. I mean, who just tells a complete stranger that they haven't got a girlfriend. Even if you believe him when he says he's single keep an eye on him when he's dancing; there are some moves that you can only carry off if you know you're partner pretty damn well. 3. Don't just offer a phone number. Drop hints about what clubs you attend on what nights. If he suggests meeting at one then swap numbers, just in case the plans change, you know. Make it seem casual. 4. Don't be afraid to ring him. A lot of guys would be very flattered to have a girl ring them. 5. If all this fails try a singles bar - the guys here will be so desperate they're bound to telephone. I'm sure [my friend] will have a completely opposite opinion, probably involving personal therapy at his place, but remember you can count our successes over the last two years on the fingers of one hand. Come to that you don't even need one hand. Anyway Edie, I look forward to seeing your final answer as I need help with this one myself. Now, Advice from female Salseras... Dear Tired of Waiting, At the Ashgrove this guy comes in with a gorgeous woman and they dance wonderfully. Then much to my surprise, he asks me to dance. I was in heaven- this guy is a great dancer. Then at Sportmen's I see him with a group of people. There's that gorgeous woman again but they don't seem like they're a couple at all. So I tell the guy I'd like to dance with him. We dance a bunch of songs. Then he takes my hand and we go to the bar and he buys me a drink. Still holding my hand we walk around. Then he buys me some water. We talk for awhile. I'm focusing all of my attention on him. I ask him, "is that woman over there your girlfriend?" He says, "Oh no, she's just my dance partner, she's not my girlfriend, why's everyone always asking me that?!" Then he asks me for my number so we can go dancing sometime. I give him my number and then was hugely disappointed when he never called. The next week, I found out that the woman was in fact his girlfriend. I felt really stupid. To add insult to injury, he doesn't even acknowledge my existence now. Of course, he's a dog and I don't want to have anything to do with him but what the hell was up with that? Why did he flirt and ask me for my Now if a guy wants my number I just say, "look, I don't give out my number but these are the clubs I go to, I'd love to dance with you again if you have the inclination." Of course then the guy feels dissed and that's the end of that. More Advice from another female Salsera... Dear Tired of Waiting, And Some MORE Advice from ANOTHER female Salsera... Dear Tired of Waiting, Unfortunatly for caucasian women its worse because Latin men know that (mostly) other nationality men are not as smooth talkers as they are. So even us latin women who know still get caught up in thier flowery words imagine caucasian women who honestly have a really hard time finding in their own race a man that will romance them. I believe that until she get's to kind of know the truth from false appearance, she shouldn't give out her number and if she does, she should probably not be the first to call. Or at least until they get to know them a little better in the scene. Or it will just feed their egos more. MORE Advice from a Salsera.... Dear Tired of Waiting, Just go out by yourself (be careful) or with the girls, dance, have fun and if a "nice" guy calls you good- but these guys that treat you nice one night and forget about the next are not worth your time! If your prime goal is to have fun at a club, my personal advice is to not give a guy your number at all; ask him to meet you at another club on a certain night and if he shows up and is still treating you great, then you got a dance partner to have fun with and you can see if he is genuinely interested. Then if you decide he is 'worth it', you can give him your number. If you are wanting to get intimate with a guy you are attracted to.. that's another story. The better dancer the girl or guy is, the more partners they have to choose from- work on your own dancing too. And One Last Bit of Advice from a female Salsera... Dear Tired of Waiting, When I first started dancing, I went through what you're going through. I used to flirt with every guy, tug on his ear, tickle his stomache everything (while we were dancing!!), and give my number out to ANYONE because I was so lonely. I developed a VERY bad reputation, and have had to force it to "recover" these past two years, by purposely saying "no", being shy, and not flirting, going home alone, and dancing with every male in the place - not just one or two. Guys STILL talk badly about me to this day. I'm 1/2 white too, grew up in a "white" world, and was totally blown away by this sudden burst of MASSIVE ATTENTION and confidence by the Latin male race... my headwas spinning!! For the short term, as of tonight, please play hard-to-get. Go home alone. Have a blast, but don't give out your number to anyone. Concentrate on your dancing, and good time, not on starting a relationship - it is very dangerous to do that with a Latin man. If you want a relationship, it will come. Don't call them. Meet them. Go to breakfast a few times with them. Meet them at a club, go to breakfast again, go to dinner before dancing, meet them. Wait a while before they pounce on you, then drop you like a bad habbit and go on to their next prey... Beware my friend. You WILL get hurt. You WILL develop a bad reputationVERY FAST... Play the shy one, the hard-to-get one, it's a very, very small world, this Salsa scene... rumors spread like wildfire. Don't get caught in the "reputation" trap. Just have a good time... for now. You will not believe how many men will be after you after a while. Then, my friend, you can pick and choose to your heart's content. Only the best - one man - will come out of the woodwork after about a year in the scene. If you're with one guy, no one else will touch you, out of respect for that other guy - Latin guys are funny that way. They respect each other's "women". Be as free, and as single as you possibly can. Take your time. Ask the guy for THEIR number - but don't call them. Play THEIR game, and see how THEY feel. Latin men love purity in a woman. If you want a Latin guy, and you end up with one, he will not like you dancing with other guys... in fact, he won't even let you go out... he will get so incredibly jealous that you will no longer have a good time dancing. The clincher is that while you're at home, washing clothes, cooking, cleaning, and having his kids, he's out at Salsa clubs playing Mr. Single Guy....he basically feels as the man of the house, he can do whatever he wants. He learned this from HIS father, and his grandfather, brothers, uncles, friends, etc, etc.... God I hate saying that. But after two years of experience and talking with SO MANY males and females about relationships with Latinos, and after actually experiencing this for myself... girlfriend, just be careful. Mark my words. Be VERY cautious in this Latin world. Latin men hate "easy chicks". When you're hard-to-get, they are all over you like white on rice... ALL OF THEM. When you're conservative, they love you to death. I'll send you responses from my friends as they come in... After reading this for a second time now, it's still all true. Isn't the truth HARSH???? But oh, it's so true. If you DO decided to date a Latin guy from a Salsa club, agree to do it in secret - no one should know about it. Tell him that up front. You both must agree on this - up front. Tell people you're dance partners if they ask... tell them you're NOT DATING - just partners... Don't show affection for each other at the clubs. Just dance, and have a good time. What you do in private should be kept private - no one should ever know. He'll like that very much, by the way... (scumbags...) If you want to get serious and marry this man, you won't need to do anything... he'll do it all, and dictate the relationship. It's just their way. "Dear Edie, Dear Full Body,
At that point he'll probably leave you solo dancing, and at that point you can breathe, relax, finish the song, and swear to never dance with him again. "Dear Edie, Dear Nipples,
I feel sorry for guys like these because they are such idiots, that they don't realize they are alienating themselves from all the ladies, and end up going home alone anyway. They ALWAYS smell like beer, have this scummy look on their faces, and think they're God's gift to women. The answer is simple. You have to treat him like a puppy that just peed on the kitchen floor. The minute he does this, you need to immediately stop dancing, right in the middle of the song, and while holding his hands/arm, whatever, look at him straight in the eye, with a glare, shake your head in a "No" fashion, very slowly and say "Don't do that again." Then stare at him for a few more seconds - and never, never, grin, or smile. Be very, very firm. Then, warn every other woman in the place about the guy and tell them to do the same. You watch. He'll end up leaving the place with his tail between his legs!!! Dear Edie, What we need is advice from a woman on what ladies are looking for when they go out. What else is there other than dancing with the woman of your dreams, propositioning her at the end of the dance, and then moving onto the next woman of your dreams when you've been blown out. We see guys who have no idea of how to dance having far more success than we do, so do you think going back to beginner's lessons where we aren't known would help. Please help, Dear Desperate from England, If you want to strike a home run, you've got to stop playing Mr. Honey-bee, and stick to just one flower. AAAAhhh, but the CHOICES....! How could one POSSIBLY CHOOSE among England's FINEST you say??? It's simple. Follow your.... uh..... your gut, you know ... that "Machismo" thing going on. There HAS to be a chemistry that is VERY strong in at least one of the dozens you dance with. If you want a relationship, and don't want a reputation, dance with everyone, have fun, but make it clear that you are interested in only ONE woman. Make her yours by dancing with her more than anyone else. While dancing with her, caress her hair, whisper soft, wonderful things in her ear (We're writing a book called "Latin Lines and Latin Guys" on what to say and how to say it...) ....pick her up at her house, treat her like a queen, tell her she looks absolutely gorgeous in that dress. Give her flowers, take her to dinner, compliment everything about her the ENTIRE evening. Take her dancing, constantly look at her. Open her car door, tell her she's beautiful every chance you get. Show jealousy for her. Never look at another woman. Go see a midnight movie afterward. Ever so slowly, put your hand her cheek, touch her face, her neck, and then her shoulders, tell her she's absolutely the most beautiful woman in the world, then softly and slowly, gently kiss her - but not a wet kiss, just a strong, sweet, simple one (when no one's looking). Drive her home, then tell her how much you feel for her, how special she is to you, how beautiful she is. Look in her eyes, caress her hair, and tell her she is the most beautiful women you've ever met in your entire life. Tell her that your life wouldn't be complete without her, tell her all you want to do is spend the rest of the evening with her... I'm co-authoring a book with Janette Valenzuela called "Latin Lines and Latin Guys...." It's almost done. The book is $25 (includes tax & shipping). It talks about how to lure a woman into your arms, sweep her off her feet, and right into your bed. It's based on what the greatest Lovers in the world - Latin Men - have said and done to us, and countless other woman at nightclubs; what works, and what doesn't... I'm not kidding. The book works. Only Latin men know this secret. The secret has been passed down from their fathers and friends, held tightly and kept to themselves, in their own culture. Now, Janette and I are FINALLY going to reveal it to the world!!! BECAUSE THE AVERAGE GUY REALLY NEEDS TO KNOW THIS STUFF!!! There have been countless times when we see a fantastic guy just SCREW UP a perfectly good opportunity, just because of his "lack of seduction knowledge". We actually feel sorry for them! Did anyone ever bother to teach him? Did he go off and try to study in school, "How to Seduce a Woman 101"? I DON'T THINK SO. We feel bad for guys sometimes. They simply do not know what to do! So, in our efforts to help the human (male) race, we are providing this education for the benefit of both men AND their lovers.. or wanna-be's.... ...Another interesting perspective for Mr. Desperate from England, to think about from a sister salsera... Regarding the letter to you from Desperate from England: And another thing... Guys!!! Don't touch a woman before you even ask her to dance. And do not approach her from the back, or the side. You have a much better chance on her saying yes if you approach her from the front and do not touch her until she gives you her hand. Be Gentlemen out there, not Brutes. Believe me, I automatically say NO to a man who has touched me before he asks me to dance, or to one who does not approach me from the front. And I almost always say YES to the ones who approach me from the front and politely wait until I take their hand. Try it Guys, IT WORKS!!! "Dear Edie, My rambling point is that your passion for Salsa comes through even in your cathartic letters about the Mayan. (cathartic? I made it up-adjective form of catharsis :) When you dance for fun, do you feel like you are producing energy, or wearing yourself out? That is the difference between passion and dedication. PS: By the way, as therapeutic as your web page is for you, your page and correspondance does a lot for the rest of us too. Dear Atlanta Man, Someone was telling me today that Salsa attracts a lot of posessive/obsessive-type people. The go-getters in life. The type "A" personalities. I'm not surprised, as it is such a challenge to dance. I've met more Doctors, engineers, lawyers, physicians, CPAs and College Professors on the Salsa dance floor than I have any other type of nightclub. What does that tell you about the calliber of people who love Salsa? It's our passion. We're passionate people, and we need to release that passion because we're passionate about everything we do in life. Salsa lovers, I have found, love life. "Dear Edie, Dear Merengue Lover, Dear Edie, "Dear Edie, Dear Concerned Observer, I'm glad you recognized this in the instructor, and lack of soul in the student. We need to somehow let people know that Salsa is not about just doing the moves, but about feeling the rhythm, and listening to the pulse of the music. It's not easy for some people. Some people never get it. Just you worry about you, and when you become awesome, they'll still be right where they're at, and people will see right through them, just like you did. "Dear Edie, Dear Sick Individual, Keep up the good work my friend. You're not sick, and you're not using women - just having the time of your life!!! "Dear Edie, Dear Hopeless, "Dear Edie, Dear Newbee, "Dear Edie, Dear Naked, "Dear Edie,
Let me know...." Dear "Curious," |
